AG denied on appeal

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AG denied on appeal

Postby jeffek » Wed May 13, 2015 3:48 pm

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Last edited by jeffek on Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:17 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: AG denied on appeal

Postby n1bsbri » Wed May 13, 2015 4:02 pm

Thanks for your report on your experiences with the RIAG's office. Your result is not surprising.

The simple explanation is that the permit through the AG is "may issue", meaning they have complete discretion about issuing (or more accurately not issuing). The current AG does not believe normal people deserve a carry permit, so you don't get one. It's as simple as that. Appealing to the courts, hiring lawyers, etc, is a fool's errand, unless you can prove some extraordinary malfeasance on the part of the AG's office (not likely).

They did give you good advice, to apply to your town. They are "shall issue", and the whole "proper showing of need" BS is not applicable. I would encourage you to review the recent RI Supreme Court decision in Gadomski vs. Tavares. There is a thread on this forum discussing it, and you can also listen to two archived Lock Stock and Daria shows where the lawyers who were involved discuss the case. http://www.lockstockanddaria.com, click on "missed a show?".

I think with the recent court decision, you have the best opportunity in years to successfully get a town permit. Good luck, and keep us in the loop.
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Re: AG denied on appeal

Postby jeffek » Wed May 13, 2015 4:24 pm

thank you for your response I was definitely upset about the denial I have since I updated my post to reflect my experience. I'll let you know how I make out with my town permit
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Re: AG denied on appeal

Postby newportri » Wed May 13, 2015 4:37 pm

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the AG. With that kind of documentation I would have expected them to issue your permit, but I guess they are getting stricter and stricter.. I assume one of the guys were Coralis, right? Was the other guy Rabbit(?)?

What attorney did you speak with?

I agree with n1bsbri that it is not a good idea to sue the AG since the law is very weak.

On a positive note, I am glad the AG is telling you that you should apply in your local town since your chances should be much better there, especially if the licensing authorities are following the law. Hopefully more people will apply locally and the actions of some Chiefs will be litigated in court since many of them have been getting away with their neglecting the law for too long.
What town are you in? I strongly suggest you apply there.
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Re: AG denied on appeal

Postby jeffek » Wed May 13, 2015 4:50 pm

thank you for your reply I am submitting my application through the town I only considered appealing to Supreme Court because in the mosbey v devine case they ruled that being a gun collector constitutes proper showing of need. so if I gave the Ag proper showing of need and he denied me is that not a good case?
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Re: AG denied on appeal

Postby n1bsbri » Wed May 13, 2015 5:22 pm

jeffek wrote:thank you for your reply I am submitting my application through the town I only considered appealing to Supreme Court because in the mosbey v devine case they ruled that being a gun collector constitutes proper showing of need. so if I gave the Ag proper showing of need and he denied me is that not a good case?

In Mosby, Chief Justice Williams was making reference to 11-47-11, the town permit statute. He was highlighting the contrast between the town statute (shall issue), and the AG statute (may issue). He stated that Mosby was an avid gun collector, which was a "proper reason" to be issued a permit.

There is a difference between "proper reason", as in 11-47-11, and "proper showing of need" in 11-47-18. The Gadomski case delved into that distinction, and the opinion stated that proper showing of need was an inappropriate standard for towns to use.

Mosby, a resident of Massachusetts who holds several gun licenses from other states, was entitled to a
carrying permit from the licensing authority of any city or town. An avid gun collector, plaintiff
has a proper reason
for carrying a pistol or revolver and there is no suggestion that he is an
unsuitable person. In contrast to § 11-47-18, the statute now before the Court, § 11-47-11 is
mandatory – an applicant who meets the criteria set forth in § 11-47-11 is entitled to a gun
permit.
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Re: AG denied on appeal

Postby jeffek » Wed May 13, 2015 5:31 pm

I see. Thanks for clearing that up
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Re: AG denied on appeal

Postby newportri » Wed May 13, 2015 5:34 pm

Even if you should "demonstrate a proper showing of need" the AG "may" issue a permit so it is pretty mych a crapshoot with the AG.
Unless anyone has a need to carry a firearm openly (ie security guards) or travel to TX (they only recognize AG permits), then you should apply locally since the law is on your side.
....the right to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
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Re: AG denied on appeal

Postby n1bsbri » Wed May 13, 2015 5:39 pm

jeffek wrote:I see thanks for clearing that up. I'm really beginning to hate this state. I find it funny that if I go to Vermont I can carry a gun openly and no one cares because its my 2nd Amendment right but in Rhode Island cause or none, it's up to how one person feels. I'm sure if the attorney general told people that their right to free speech was may issue there would be a much greater reaction but because it's the 2nd amendment only the people who care about firearms ,care enough to do anything about it. its just sad really. thank you guys for the advice I'm just going to bite my tongue fill out my town permit and submit it. if for some reason it doesn't get approved I am taking off the gloves but no matter what I am not stopping until I have what I feel is my right a concealed carry permit

In the Mosby decision, Justice Williams explored the constitutional requirement you allude to. It's important to understand the distinction he is making here, your blood pressure will thank me

Two separate and distinct licensing procedures are set forth in the Firearms Act: § 11-47-
18, now before the Court, provides for the discretionary grant of a firearms license by the
department “upon a proper showing of need,” and § 11-47-11(a), a mandatory licensing
provision that provides in pertinent part:

“The licensing authorities of any city or town shall, upon
application of any person twenty-one (21) years of age or over
having a bona fide residence or place of business within the city or
town, or of any person twenty-one (21) years of age or over having
a bona fide residence within the United States and a license or
permit to carry a pistol or revolver concealed upon his or her
person issued by the authorities of any other state or subdivision of
the United States, issue a license or permit to the person to carry
concealed upon his or her person a pistol or revolver everywhere
within this state for four (4) years from date of issue, if it appears
that the applicant has good reason to fear an injury to his or her
person or property or has any other proper reason for carrying a
pistol or revolver, and that he or she is a suitable person to be so
licensed.” (Emphases added.)

Because the Firearms Act provides for both discretionary and mandatory licensing to
qualified applicants, the constitutional guarantee to keep and bear arms is fulfilled.
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Re: AG denied on appeal

Postby jeffek » Wed May 13, 2015 6:11 pm

thanks. I just wanted to make this posting so people would know before they went through all the trouble that I did just to get denied. I read so many posts on different forums and talked to different people who have permits and I really believe at the least I would receive a restricted permit. it really is just the flip of a coin if he doesn't feel like it you don't got one my advice to anybody applying for a permit is to go through the local authority and not even to bother trying the AG's office trust me he basically told me that no reason is good enough.
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