300 blackout Pistol Build

Technical discussions relating to specific firearms.

300 blackout Pistol Build

Postby jcat » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:22 pm

FIgured I may as well start a thread on this one. A while back I picked up a stripped lower since I could get it so cheap and had a spare LPK kicking around. I also obtained some 300blk brass to go with it. I built it most of the way out trying to think of what to build it into, and eventually settled on a 300 blackout. But, this was right around the time that I moved and started renovating the house I'm living in, so it went on the back burner. At one point I was about to sell the whole kit, and had a buyer, but that person decided against it. That being the case, I recently decided I'd finish building it into a fully, 100% RI legal Faux-SBR with the assistance of Mr. Sauer.

The lower is an Anderson AM-15 lower recievier, mil-spec nothing fancy. DPMS lower parts kit, again mil-spec errythang. That's how the lower sat for the longest time.

I finished the lower off with the KAK Pistol Buffer kit, made specifically to support the Sig Sauer SB-15 Pistol Stabilizing brace. It's got a step built into it for the SB15 to rest against, making it ideal for shouldering. However, a company called Odinworks is releasing their buffer tube as well as a retention nut that attaches with a set screw and has a 'shelf' milled into it which should keep the SB15 from rotating. No pricing released yet so I don't know how bad I'll want it, but it's on the table. I have yet to purchase the brace, but have one on the line ready to be bought after I get paid next week.

The upper, which I should be picking up at the PO this evening, is a Rainier slick side upper (no FA, but does have dust cover), Rainier Stainless Select 10.5" Barrel, Rainier BCG and Rainier Raptor charging handle, BCM .750" low profile gas block, and an ALG 10" EMR hand guard with 2 rail sections. It doesn't have a muzzle device on it yet, but I'm still deciding on whether i plan to go with a linear compensator or something smaller and lighter.

Once it's finished being fully built it will be getting the EOtech 512 from my Sig 556, and a set of flip up irons. I also will add an Inforce WML. The light is only 200 lumen but is very compact and momentary only, which I like. It may also get the Magpul AFG from the 556, haven't decided yet. The 556 will then see some sort of ACOG or variable scope eventually, and if the AFG moves to the pistol, it will get a Grip-pod.

Eventual planned aftermarket upgrades would be an ALG ACT or Geisselle SDC trigger, and upgraded pistol grip, trigger guard, bits and pieces like that.

I'll snap a few pictures tonight once I get home.
Last edited by jcat on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 300 blackout Pistol Build

Postby newportri » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:50 pm

I don't know much about pistols, but it looks like a nice build.
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Re: 300 blackout Pistol Build

Postby jcat » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:50 pm

newportri wrote:I don't know much about pistols, but it looks like a nice build.


Take a rifle, remove the ability to put a 'permanent' stock on it, chop the barrel in half and VOILA!


That's really all there is too it. The nice thing will be that with this running as a pistol with the Sig brace, I'll be able to effectively have any caliber faux-SBR that runs in the AR15 platform. 223/556, 22lr, 6.8 with a diff bolt, x39, 5.45 etc.

I'm building it in 300blk to start with so that it can take over primary HD/short range gun duties from my 556, which I plan on converting to more of a mid-longer range (500yd) rifle with a bipod and magnification up top.

Getting ready to leave the work and head to the PO now. It's like christmas!
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Re: 300 blackout Pistol Build

Postby jcat » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:30 am

Some pics!

Got the upper today, super tight fit on the lower. Moved the rail sections that came with it to be more advantageous to my expected accessories, and mounted the EOTech on it also while I had it out. I am shocked at how nice the ALG EMR feels in the hand, to the point that I don't see a need to put the AFG on it.

Image

Image

Now for what's left to get:

-Flip up Irons
-Muzzle Device
-SB15 brace
-Inforce WMLx (500 lumen model)
-QD Endplate
-Sling
-Dedicated 300blk mags (thinking I'll go gray or OD/foliage to keep them identified easily)
-Lots and LOTS of ammo

I'll also probably get the EOtech LBC whenever they come out.
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Re: 300 blackout Pistol Build

Postby shovel1966 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:23 am

Looks GREAT!! Will be even better with the SB15. When combined with the KAK pistol tube, the SB15 is an awesome device. My SB15 is a very nice, tight fit on the tube and doesn't spin like I thought it might. I like it so much I bought another for a build I haven't even really started. (well....I have started, but don't tell my wife) 8-)
Have fun testing it out when you get a chance.
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Re: 300 blackout Pistol Build

Postby Thib » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:46 pm

Uh oh... The BATF just can't leave anything alone.

http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/breaking-recent-atf-letter-on-sig-brace-calls-into-question-legality-of-shoulder-firing/

Edit: I do understand the letter only applies to the specific shotgun that was submitted, but it is still a bad precedent to set.

I guess I should have started a new topic on this, my bad.
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Re: 300 blackout Pistol Build

Postby jcat » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:11 pm

Thib wrote:Uh oh... The BATF just can't leave anything alone.

http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/breaking-recent-atf-letter-on-sig-brace-calls-into-question-legality-of-shoulder-firing/

Edit: I do understand the letter only applies to the specific shotgun that was submitted, but it is still a bad precedent to set.

I guess I should have started a new topic on this, my bad.



IMO, that ruling means nothing. When is the last time you ever heard of a shotgun being sold as a pistol? Plus, it's a smooth bore. Meaning the barrel has to be 18" or more regardless. Exception being something like the Serbu super shorty, which is still an NFA item (under the AOW category), so it's irrelevant as well.
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Re: 300 blackout Pistol Build

Postby newportri » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:29 pm

I don't think it is irrelevant since it is a ruling by the ATF and the same opinion would apply if it was a rifle.
However, it contradicts the letter that comes with the brace where it says that it is compliant since it "does not convert the firearm".
https://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/ATF-Compliant-Letter.pdf
The letter in the article above states that
the subject brace has then been made or remade, designed or redesigned from it's originally intended purpose"

I disagree that it has been redesigned or remade since no changes has been made to the firearm itself. You are simply firing the firearm from a different position.
The letter also states in the beginning that because the firearm has a forward pistol grip it is no longer intended to be held and fired by a single hand (I pretty much fire all my handguns with two hands..). So, if you remove the forward pistol grip, what would the ATF classify it as?
This is the ATF's definition of a SBR:
Short-barreled shotgun. A shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length, and any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.


http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/guides/gun-control-act-definition-shotgun

A firearm, as defined by the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3), is made when unassembled parts are placed in close proximity in such a way that they: (a) serve no useful purpose other than to make a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; or (b) convert a complete weapon into such an NFA firearm. A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when parts within a kit that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length). A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol). A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle.

https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf
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Re: 300 blackout Pistol Build

Postby jcat » Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:11 pm

newportri wrote:I don't think it is irrelevant since it is a ruling by the ATF and the same opinion would apply if it was a rifle.

However, it contradicts the letter that comes with the brace where it says that it is compliant since it "does not convert the firearm".


See, I think we're actually saying the same thing in different ways. The reason being that the sig brace on an AR Pistol is by definition exactly that, a pistol and not a rifle, and not a short barrel rifle.

There is no such classification of 'pistol' for Shotguns, which this instance is based upon. Therefore anything that doesn't meet the length requirements for a shotgun is either an SBS, or an AOW. Were there an option for a pistol designation as with the rifle classification, this would be no issue.

Similar to how if the overall length of an AR pistol is over 26", you actually CAN legally have a vertical foregrip, but still no stock, because it then falls into the gray area between pistol, sbr and rifle. The AR pistol only becomes an AOW when its length is under 26" and it has a foregrip.

The quote from the article:

The letter in question was specifically regarding a shotgun with an overall length greater than 26″ with a vertical grip attached as far as I can tell, so it’s not as if this letter negates the previous letter as best as I can tell.


So, we're talking about a shotgun, with a barrel under 18" but an OAL greater than 26", plus a vertical grip, making it an AOW. Because of that, the brace becomes a de facto stock when used on an AOW, but not when used on a Pistol.
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Re: 300 blackout Pistol Build

Postby x45 » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:47 pm

Nice build!

I like the idea of an AR pistol in the 300 BLK cartridge. What buffer type did you use as far as weight?
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